I hope you all are doing well. I had made a similar post in April but the builder was different then. Dropping Bricks Builder. Moving to Zion Builder
Bricks worked on those issues and brought me back to it in no time. But making the same happen this time looks difficult. I am switching to Cwicly which is another builder based on Gutenberg.
1) Slow Update Cycle: 1-2 weeks cycle is better than before but some stuff needs to be hotfixed immediately with a small release fixing few bugs. A productivity breaking bug does not get fixed for weeks. Such bugs should be fixed with a hot fix release at earliest. WIP: Ghosted values showing from lower breakpoints on higher Breakpoints
See how Cwicly handles the fixes. Average of 4 releases per week. Some bugs get fixed within few hours of reporting. Changelog - Cwicly
2) Lack of focus on accessibility: Adam Lowe of Peak Performance Digital reported accessibility issues with many page builders including Bricks a month back. Here for you to watch and the same was also reported on the forum then.
Cwicly also had issues but they fixed all in multiple releases within 72 hours of the video.
Bricks have Tabs & Accordions from quite a time but they are also not accessible and accessibility does not looks like priority to Bricks. New interactions can help a bit but they also lack the ability to control keyboard keys to make Bricks elements fully accessible on DIY basis.
3) Lack of thorough template conditions: This has been requested since Bricks was live and we are yet to see it. Using conditional blocks within a template makes the whole template messy. Below is an example how flexible Cwicly is allowing you to load gutenberg templates based on your desired conditions.
I can go on and on what is lacking in Bricks in terms of Gutenberg compatibility, lack of css grid even when it’s WIP from a long time, lack of menu builder (menu is essential part of the site), etc but I hope my post gives enough idea why I am leaving Bricks again. Thank you for all the time and support here.
Good luck and see you later when you come back.
I agree with you, it would be great if there was a greater focus on accessibility.
Also, it would be good to have an accessibility category in the forum. To push this big topic!
Talking bout’ Accessibility, there was once someone who gave me a bad review on a google biz profile just because the website was not accessible.
So, I agree that the Accessibility of the website is essential and should be a priority task.
I am glad that you find a builder that match your requirements.
From my side, I think that Bricks team is doing an amazing job and everything is getting better and better. Of course, it takes times. But bashing them every few months will not help at all.
What I want to say to the team is: Thank you! Thank you for listenning to us! Thank you for doing your best. We know it is not perfect, but it is already crazy and we will get there soon.
Have a great day,
Totally agree, I guess I’ll have to have a new look at Cwicly the next few days…
Thought a builder from Germany will cover accessibility in a serious way, since laws are very strict there. But maybe there is something in works, hopefully.
I own licenses for both… I started using Bricks more, just because I still don’t like all the moving parts in Gutenberg. Once things settle down a little more, I will certainly start using my Cwicly license more. I am not saying that Gutenberg is all bad and slowly it is taking shape, but I still dislike much of the interface. That said, the team at Cwicly don’t have as much control as does the Bricks team over the interface and builder, given they are linked to the overall Gutenberg development cycle. Under that circumstances, they made some wise interface choices, even though it has a steep learning curve. They are doing an impressive job in my opinion (given they have to adapt to that mess of a Gutenberg rollout going on for years now).
There is no builder choice for life going on in my head for me… I love a diverse ecosystem with many choices! If you on the other hand arn’t an early adopter or have limited funds… I can see why a builder choice could weigh heavy. Then again, learn coding and your golden. More work, but you become more independant. And the cake is still colossal and still growing with more and more people coming online.
This post seems more like an advertising for Cwicly that someone used little things to make it look like a big thing. The developer of the website should make sure that accessibility is working. Build your own accordions if you’re not happy.
It’s just a pain in the ass to work with Gutenberg in any way.
In fact, the videos cited above are from a developer who mainly promotes and uses Pinegrow. He ventured into traditional page builder land with his little accessibility comparison to compare against the baseline of Pinegrow. If you look closely enough, you will see that his platform of choice Pinegrow actually isn’t even a tradition page builder, but more of a Theme builder also capable of building blocks. Pinegrow is currently moving into the plugin space, offering the Pingrow editor as a plugin going forward. That venture is presently in beta. It has all the bells and whistles, although they haven’t ported Tailwind as far as I know. Also, you have to wrap your head around the fact that you’re building a Theme and you can actually deinstall the Pinegrow plugin, once you’re done. I like it and have used the approach (offline), but it has an even steeper learning curve.
@Tobias If accessibility and quick updates are a small thing to you then I don’t know what to say. What’s the purpose of a builder if I have to write everything from scratch? In fact I did a build my own accordion and tabs with accessibility in Bricks with keyboard navigation (tab, arrow keys, proper labels, etc). Pretty basic though. Experience in Gutenberg have improved over the last few releases. Cwicly fills the gap.
@MaxZieb Yes. Adam is a Pinegrow user as he does not want to have a lock in after the Oxygen fiasco. But he is using GenerateBlocks/Kadence in some places where he feels that client will need more control. Cwicly & Greenshift are on his watchlist. I have also beta tested the PGWP plugin and it’s a great addition. I do use PG for a few blocks but it’s difficult for me to implement it on larger scale as making attributes for every block is time consuming. I use the Cwicly role editor to limit the client access to few properties, text and images.
Gutenberg is a con as well as a pro. It works as a large shadow team for all block plugins which uses it’s API. Lots of things are taken care for you and you just need to focus on the functionality of your block. There is no custom save, revision, etc functions to build. I feel stability wise Gutenberg trumps every other page builders out there. It’s development is never going to stop or slow down. Block styles, Block variations and block locking capabilities are opening up big time. You can see how much Cwicly build upon it without moving outside of Gutenberg API. Cwicly’s custom breakpoints will be the first feature which they will build outside of Gutenberg API.
We cannot ignore Gutenberg now. Woo is also shifting their elements to Store API based blocks. They will be flexible & fast without any limitations of the current php template based approach. Store Editing Roadmap Update – Q4 2022 – Develop with WooCommerce
Woo Store API. Store API is now considered stable – Develop with WooCommerce
Cwicly is also working on store api based woo blocks. It might be the most flexible solution to build woo sites in the coming days. Right now Pinegrow is the best way to build flexible woo sites with ease.
working gutenberg including gutenberg external plugins must work. nothing more to add from my side.
That is precisely the question, as builders fulfill many things, to a variety of people. The developer types want a lot of control and direct code access, with the added benefit of onboarding a designer. The webpage builders want quick build times and theme parts. The playful ones, like animations and wow effects for their clients. Then there are the ones that want accessibility as a main focus (often even required).
If you like Cwicly you would fall into the category of interface savvy people that like plenty of options (like me). To be fair they shifted to address less option savvy people, recently. Although, I often end up just hand coding something before trying to figure it out in some interface.
I recommend also giving Permaslug (YouTuber) a view, he moved to Generate Blocks and it is really simple, but also seemingly satisfying in its simplicity. You don’t spend as much time learning the tool as with many of the more complex solutions.
With respect, you seem to be jumping builders often and always looking for a “perfect” solution.
If this is just a hobby, then I think that’s obviously fine, but if you’re doing this for business, then being focused is a better choice.
sure. but if we start to discuss such things a tool like bricks which sees itself still in beta with a refund without any timeframe could also be a strange business choice? …
@Deanphillips Hi Dean. Thanks for your reply. It’s a business and not a hobby. I have most sites in Oxygen Builder and some in Elementor. Also some ancient WPBakery and Genesis Framework sites.
I have been looking for a new builder since January 2022 as Oxy was not cutting any more and these recent events made me lose my faith in it. I had started by testing Bricks & Zion builder. I did a few projects with Bricks. But Bricks role editor (allowing editor access to client) was broken for a long time making it impossible for me to share my clients access to the builder. I have taken a new project recently which have accessibility as a priority. Bricks is not a fit for it with their current elements.
I had also tested custom gutenberg blocks, pinegrow, cwicly and greenshift builder in last 10 months. I found Cwicly to be the most perfect solution out of all. You also have a Cwicly license so you are aware of it’s progress. Dust is now settled. I will make new sites via Cwicly and start converting the old sites to Cwicly as & when I get approval from the clients.
@omega i 100%agree with you. My main reason to buy Bricks for Woo Stuff but if you closely watch the progress it didn’t seems motivated towards Woo, i’vs started one website in Bricks but now I think to move it to BD.
They stopped the focus on Woo after Phase 2. They are now working on something they promised to complete before the year ends. So, maybe they will plan for Woo phase 3(no idea if any) in 2023?
@MaxZieb Just a few minor corrections… The menu accessibility videos never once show Pinegrow because it doesn’t have a menu component. Or any other component, for that matter. The whole exercise was to help me understand the nuances of menu accessibility from an academic standpoint (W3C docs) and a practical standpoint (popular tools).
And as @omega mentioned, I do use or support plenty of other tools like GB, Kadence, Oxygen, and even Elementor (yuck!). Bricks, Cwicly, and Greenshift are on my “watch list” because they have great promise and are popular enough, but I don’t feel comfortable using them in production yet. Of those, Bricks is the closest to “ready,” and I’m not crazy about Cwicly at all, despite it having a lot going for it. Breakdance is another interesting product; I just can’t bring myself to use it because of the company leadership and some of their past decisions.
I choose to create content around Pinegrow for two reasons. First, it is the tool that I have standardized on for most of my projects. Second, everyone else is already making content for GB and Bricks, so I found a content niche in Pinegrow and grabbed it, and all 10 of my subscribers seem to appreciate it. I don’t get paid by them or receive any special discounts or licenses. In fact, the benefit they have gotten from my videos has far outweighed anything I’ve received from the 100+ hours I’ve put into them so far.
Also, Pinegrow has ported Tailwind to the plugin; they just don’t allow you to customize the Tailwind config file in the plugin the way you can on the desktop, so you have to use the JIT compiler’s defaults.
I stay quiet in the Bricks space because I don’t have anything to add to the conversation. It’s a promising young builder with a growing ecosystem. It’s doing a lot of things right but still has rough edges. Still, if I had to put my money on 2022-2023’s best platforms for “power users,” I’d say Bricks and GB are at the top of the list.
This post demonstrates clearly, that this guy is jumping around solutions and earns no money. So he needs attention by such useless posts and awful blaming.
„Those who blame are broke“
Good bye and go home
To be clear and honest:
Please do NOT come back, such hoppers destroy more than they create.